TRX vs Rivan R1T

[Griffin]

You are absolutely correct there. Take an old, but solid car. If you rebuild it, there will be a little electricity for the power equipment, some fossil fuels for the rubber and fluids, and if you use state of the art paint and other chemicals, a VERY small VOC out put.

Now, make a battery for an electric vehicle. You mine the rare earth minerals with heavy equipment. (They are called RARE earth for a reason) Once they are done blowing soot out the exhaust, you refine them. More pollution. Then the minerals are shipped via diesel powered ship to Asia where the construction begins. More soot from smoke stacks in a very polluted area and lots of power to make the battery.

Now the completed battery goes back on a diesel powered ship for transport to Japan or the U.S. All of this so someone can feel righteous that they are saving the environment.

Total cost for rebuilding in energy, in 2010 when I saw the study, was $6.10. Total energy cost for a battery, not counting the minerals and construction, $214.78. This doesn't count the coal fired power plant to charge the electric car. Yes there are other types of power plants, but coal and natural gas make most of the electricity in the U.S..

Wow. This is extremely disturbing if all is factual (not saying you aren’t, just the numbers you got from the study in your last paragraph). I’m one that for both Electric and gas/diesel vehicles.

 

[grouch]

Wow. This is extremely disturbing if all is factual (not saying you aren’t, just the numbers you got from the study in your last paragraph). I’m one that for both Electric and gas/diesel vehicles.

Keep in mind the study was 12 years ago. I started a similar discussion on another forum and found the old study on some old notes. (I'm a pack rat.) On newer statistics, the U.S. has a -13% electrical capacity as of 2017. Two relatives are electrical engineers and they say the deficit is even more now.

 

[Griffin]

Keep in mind the study was 12 years ago. I started a similar discussion on another forum and found the old study on some old notes. (I'm a pack rat.) On newer statistics, the U.S. has a -13% electrical capacity as of 2017. Two relatives are electrical engineers and they say the deficit is even more now.

That’s even scarier than. So all this “go green” change in the auto market could backfire on us and the auto industry real quick?

 

[grouch]

That’s even scarier than. So all this “go green” change in the auto market could backfire on us and the auto industry real quick?

To be honest, I don't think it's going to be like they say. Ford and GM both said they were going all electric about the time California passed laws restricting internal combustion engines around 2030 or so. I think a lot of it is talk to sate the shareholders. Let's say Ford drops gas engines completely. GM follows suit. Chrysler (Well, F.C.A.) may still make gas vehicles with hybrids in there too. Along with Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai and so on will probably still make gassers. Porsche built their first hybrid (well, Ferdinand was working for someone else and built it) in 1899. So hybrids are not new. The market will determine what is built. You can bet if Ford drops ALL I.C. engines, the market will go elsewhere.

Older stuff will rise in value. I prefer working on older stuff as it's what I trained on. In 10 years my driving will probably be reduced and I'll be lucky to still drive in 20 years, if I'm still alive, or not in the old curmudgeon home gumming my gruel in the corner.

 

[Griffin]

To be honest, I don't think it's going to be like they say. Ford and GM both said they were going all electric about the time California passed laws restricting internal combustion engines around 2030 or so. I think a lot of it is talk to sate the shareholders. Let's say Ford drops gas engines completely. GM follows suit. Chrysler (Well, F.C.A.) may still make gas vehicles with hybrids in there too. Along with Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai and so on will probably still make gassers. Porsche built their first hybrid (well, Ferdinand was working for someone else and built it) in 1899. So hybrids are not new. The market will determine what is built. You can bet if Ford drops ALL I.C. engines, the market will go elsewhere.

Older stuff will rise in value. I prefer working on older stuff as it's what I trained on. In 10 years my driving will probably be reduced and I'll be lucky to still drive in 20 years, if I'm still alive, or not in the old curmudgeon home gumming my gruel in the corner.

Agree with you. My wife’s company (she’s in sales) and has a company/personal car and they told all employees that they will be all electric by 2030. Not sure how there could ever be a complete elimination of gas/diesel vehicles (like the government claims). Why does everything have to be based on what california does

 

[grouch]

Agree with you. My wife’s company (she’s in sales) and has a company/personal car and they told all employees that they will be all electric by 2030. Not sure how there could ever be a complete elimination of gas/diesel vehicles (like the government claims). Why does everything have to be based on what california does

All the broadcast networks and their news people are based either in New York City or Los Angeles. The world they depict is nothing like mine in Southern Indiana. Several years ago, the L.A. people were running panic stories about some work on an overpass coming up for the morning commute in L.A. and calling it "Carmageddon". I didn't see any evidence on my morning commute to work at all.

California has a lot of Propositions. Many years ago, we had to start putting "Prop 65" stickers on roofing. Yes, there are carcinogens in roofing. Mostly the asphalt used. The only way they are coming out though is if your house is on fire and I think you have more immediate concerns in that case.

 

[quietpeen]

Total energy cost for a battery, not counting the minerals and construction, $214.78.

So what you are saying is just like with anything political anymore……follow the money and you will see why something is being pushed so hard.

 

[grouch]

So what you are saying is just like with anything political anymore……follow the money and you will see why something is being pushed so hard.

Yep, it's been that way in this country since before we WERE a country. I'm old enough to remember Cyclamates. They were an artificial sweetener that competed with Aspartame. They were outlawed after TV reports of them causing cancer. Fast forward a couple of decades and it turned out the rats were given 6000 times the normal amount. Anytime I see news stories about this or that is bad for you, I remember the 60's when they banned a perfectly safe product because of well paid people convincing the mob of something.

 

[Griffin]

So what you are saying is just like with anything political anymore……follow the money and you will see why something is being pushed so hard.

No way! Not in politics!

 

[quietpeen]

No way! Not in politics!

Yea what was I thinking