quietpeen
Well-known member
SEXY
Gun Porn
- Thread starter MADDOG
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Trailmaker
Active member
Nice build what ammo are you using?
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Most of the time with 5.56/.223, I end up with Winchester ammo. It's inexpensive and usually shoots good. There's an Academy Sports just down the road from me. In many cases, their Winchester 5.56 is less expensive in the store than the online discount deals from others, once you factor in online shipping. But for 9mm, .38 and .308, I usually come out better with online deals as long as I buy enough to making the shipping workout. I shoot so little of the other calibers I have that it doesn't matter.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
I am going to have surgery soon and will be at home healing for a week or two. So that gives me time for a new rifle build! This one will be an M16A4 Clone, like the M16 rifles carried by US Marines in Iraq, but in a civilian-legal semiautomatic configuration. The following are the parts I've acquired and their actual costs with shipping and taxes. Part of the fun of building rifles is getting the parts I want at the prices I want to spend.
NOTE: This is NOT a plug for certain brands or items. This is just what I, HandyCruiser, actually bought within my budget and what I paid. There may be better choices. These were just my choices to get what I wanted, when I wanted it, at what I wanted to, or was able to pay. And I did receive some discounts for being a minor local celebrity. That's not really the reason for the discounts, but I like to think it is.
We start with an M16A4 lower from the good folks at Texas Machine Gun & Ordinance. Just having that name on it will make it worth more. The one I have is already finished in a milspec black coating.
Next is the upper receiver from Del-Ton. Based on available photos and descriptions, Del-Ton has some pretty accurate M16A2 thru A4 reproductions at a good price, complete with the correct T-marks on the rail. The milspec auto bolt carrier group and charging handle are included.
The most specialized part for this build is the M5 RAS quad-rail system. This one is the P+S version and was made under the KAS license for government issue. Pricey, but the genuine article and still cheaper than the ones made directly by KAS.
Internals, buttstock and rear site are as follows. After installing an Anderson stainless steel hammer and trigger kit in my last build, I decided to do that for most builds going forward. I believe that for a milspec-like kit, this one is the best quality and is very smooth. Leaper's UTG is high quality as well and meets the milspec pretty faithfully. Also, this UTG buttstock includes the correct matching buffer, spring and tube.
This should cover the initial build of the M16A4 clone, but without the USGI sling, mag pouch and other accessories or optics. Total cost so far is $879.01.
I will post more once the build is underway.
NOTE: This is NOT a plug for certain brands or items. This is just what I, HandyCruiser, actually bought within my budget and what I paid. There may be better choices. These were just my choices to get what I wanted, when I wanted it, at what I wanted to, or was able to pay. And I did receive some discounts for being a minor local celebrity. That's not really the reason for the discounts, but I like to think it is.
We start with an M16A4 lower from the good folks at Texas Machine Gun & Ordinance. Just having that name on it will make it worth more. The one I have is already finished in a milspec black coating.
Next is the upper receiver from Del-Ton. Based on available photos and descriptions, Del-Ton has some pretty accurate M16A2 thru A4 reproductions at a good price, complete with the correct T-marks on the rail. The milspec auto bolt carrier group and charging handle are included.
The most specialized part for this build is the M5 RAS quad-rail system. This one is the P+S version and was made under the KAS license for government issue. Pricey, but the genuine article and still cheaper than the ones made directly by KAS.
Internals, buttstock and rear site are as follows. After installing an Anderson stainless steel hammer and trigger kit in my last build, I decided to do that for most builds going forward. I believe that for a milspec-like kit, this one is the best quality and is very smooth. Leaper's UTG is high quality as well and meets the milspec pretty faithfully. Also, this UTG buttstock includes the correct matching buffer, spring and tube.
This should cover the initial build of the M16A4 clone, but without the USGI sling, mag pouch and other accessories or optics. Total cost so far is $879.01.
I will post more once the build is underway.
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HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Some more items for the M16A4 clone build. Two 30-round aluminum magazines, and a buttstock magazine pouch.
I also got a US-made design-correct sling. It is Coyote tan, as issued to the Marines, and not the aftermarket camouflage pattern shown in the photo.
I also got a US-made design-correct sling. It is Coyote tan, as issued to the Marines, and not the aftermarket camouflage pattern shown in the photo.
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HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Two more items for the M16A4 Clone.
First, there is a metal "UID TAG". It appears most, if not all, US issued M16A4 rifles had these on the right side of the lower receiver. Since they are formatted differently depending on the manufacturer (usually Colt or FN), I chose the common FN tag and then completed it with the information from Texas Machine Gun & Ordnance. The data on the tag in the photo below is for a US-issue FN rifle.
Second is a Schmid ambidextrous safety selector. These were included on some of the later M16A4 rifles. And while included on Colt and FN models, they were mostly all made by Schmid. The only different is that this one is for semi-automatic rifles. I believe the automatic version would have worked with the semi-auto fire control group. But it would have been about a $100 more than the semi-auto version. Plus, it's good to keep everything "under the hood" as semiautomatic in order to avoid the ever-changing legal definition of "constructive possession".
First, there is a metal "UID TAG". It appears most, if not all, US issued M16A4 rifles had these on the right side of the lower receiver. Since they are formatted differently depending on the manufacturer (usually Colt or FN), I chose the common FN tag and then completed it with the information from Texas Machine Gun & Ordnance. The data on the tag in the photo below is for a US-issue FN rifle.
Second is a Schmid ambidextrous safety selector. These were included on some of the later M16A4 rifles. And while included on Colt and FN models, they were mostly all made by Schmid. The only different is that this one is for semi-automatic rifles. I believe the automatic version would have worked with the semi-auto fire control group. But it would have been about a $100 more than the semi-auto version. Plus, it's good to keep everything "under the hood" as semiautomatic in order to avoid the ever-changing legal definition of "constructive possession".
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
It was time for a little zeroing in with the new lightweight rifle build. I'm at a borrow pit on my wife's family property. The pit is about 55 years old and is starting to get overgrown with yellow pine trees. But it's still a near perfect range, with high walls on three sides.
This lightweight rifle has a 16" stainless steel M4 government profile barrel with 1:9 twist and a carbine length gas system. Chamber is .223 Wylde for accurate use with both regular .223 and NATO 5.56.
I don't have a good photo of the target. But for me in a supported position and my father-in-law in an unsupported position while sitting on an ATV, we seem to be mostly grouping high and slightly to the left on a 50-meter target. This rifle has Feyachi S27 fiber optic iron sights that came in a set. The front site has an M16 style adjustment, but I couldn't get it adjusted properly just using a 5.56 FMJ round as a tool.
So from my initial sight-in with a bore laser, I knew I would be shooting high. The tendency to hit left is likely just overcompensation that both I and my father-in-law naturally make after a lifetime of shooting rifles with heavier trigger pulls. The bore laser was dead on, left to right. And if I aimed a little right and low, I could get the bullseye. I plan to go back to the borrow pit with the right tools soon. Overall, I really like this rifle.
This lightweight rifle has a 16" stainless steel M4 government profile barrel with 1:9 twist and a carbine length gas system. Chamber is .223 Wylde for accurate use with both regular .223 and NATO 5.56.
I don't have a good photo of the target. But for me in a supported position and my father-in-law in an unsupported position while sitting on an ATV, we seem to be mostly grouping high and slightly to the left on a 50-meter target. This rifle has Feyachi S27 fiber optic iron sights that came in a set. The front site has an M16 style adjustment, but I couldn't get it adjusted properly just using a 5.56 FMJ round as a tool.
So from my initial sight-in with a bore laser, I knew I would be shooting high. The tendency to hit left is likely just overcompensation that both I and my father-in-law naturally make after a lifetime of shooting rifles with heavier trigger pulls. The bore laser was dead on, left to right. And if I aimed a little right and low, I could get the bullseye. I plan to go back to the borrow pit with the right tools soon. Overall, I really like this rifle.
NelsoniteTRX
New member
Amazing gun, and have exact same but using a Nightforce ATACR for glass. One of my fav rifles for sure.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Some of the last parts for my upcoming M16A4 Clone build. These are both original US Gov. issue. While there are some minor scratches of the bayonet scabbard, both the OKC 3-S bayonet and the Model 4 strap/parachute cord cutter appear to be unused. With shipping and sales tax, the bayonet with scabbard was $103.91 USD. The strap/parachute cord cutter was $13.95. Both were made by Ontario Knife Co. which was the original supplier of these to the US military. The entire length of the bayonet in the scabbard is 14 inches. So it's a pretty impressive piece.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Went ahead and grabbed some ACOG adjustment caps with the USGI lanyard attached. It's a small thing, but will be very visible on the completed rifle.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Let's talk about the "ACOG" for a few minutes.
The Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) is a series of prismatic telescopic sights manufactured by Trijicon. The ACOG was originally designed to be used on the M16 rifle and M4 carbine, but Trijicon has also developed ACOG accessories for other firearms. Here are some photos of the TA31 4X32 ACOGs used on US Army and Marine Corp M16A4 rifles. The exact configuration has changed throughout their use. And they are still used today on the M4A1 carbine rifles.
A Trijicon TA31 4X32 ACOG as was issued on USGI M16A4 rifles can still be bought for civilian use. However, the price is around $1,300. This is very pricey for a red-dot scope. And it just about equals what I've spent so far on the parts for my M16A4 clone build. There are a LOT of Chinese copies for sale on eBay and Amazon ranging from about $70 to $150. After doing my research, I found that the quality (or lack there of) was about the same for most of them. And they seem to have mostly all been made at one Chinese factory and/or based on one copied design with the ubiquitous Chinese manufacturing shortcuts.
I was not going to spend $1,300 for a genuine Trijicon. So I decided to roll the dice and buy from the "low end" of the cheap copy spectrum. The cheapest I found was on eBay for $38.50, but the seller was accepting offers. So I offered $33 and got it.
And from the initial inspection, I am pretty pleased. Here's the best photo I could get with my phone at approx. 25 meters.
Here's a shot of the reticle. It's hard to focus on with my cell phone. The delta in the middle is illuminated by the fiber optics, just from the light in my office (only lit by window light). It works pretty well.
I've added a "Killflash" to the front of it (as seen on the Marine Corp ACOG above), which doesn't appear to effect viewing at all. An adjustment cap lanyard and rear lens cover are on the way. The real test will be to determine if it holds zero after putting a hundred rounds through the finished rifle. So we will have to wait and see.
PS: After my initial inspection, I went ahead and ordered a second one at the $33 price. For that price, it's a pretty decent red dot scope, even if it doesn't hold zero on an M16A4. And in that case, I will use both on either .22 rifles or BB guns.
The Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) is a series of prismatic telescopic sights manufactured by Trijicon. The ACOG was originally designed to be used on the M16 rifle and M4 carbine, but Trijicon has also developed ACOG accessories for other firearms. Here are some photos of the TA31 4X32 ACOGs used on US Army and Marine Corp M16A4 rifles. The exact configuration has changed throughout their use. And they are still used today on the M4A1 carbine rifles.
A Trijicon TA31 4X32 ACOG as was issued on USGI M16A4 rifles can still be bought for civilian use. However, the price is around $1,300. This is very pricey for a red-dot scope. And it just about equals what I've spent so far on the parts for my M16A4 clone build. There are a LOT of Chinese copies for sale on eBay and Amazon ranging from about $70 to $150. After doing my research, I found that the quality (or lack there of) was about the same for most of them. And they seem to have mostly all been made at one Chinese factory and/or based on one copied design with the ubiquitous Chinese manufacturing shortcuts.
I was not going to spend $1,300 for a genuine Trijicon. So I decided to roll the dice and buy from the "low end" of the cheap copy spectrum. The cheapest I found was on eBay for $38.50, but the seller was accepting offers. So I offered $33 and got it.
And from the initial inspection, I am pretty pleased. Here's the best photo I could get with my phone at approx. 25 meters.
Here's a shot of the reticle. It's hard to focus on with my cell phone. The delta in the middle is illuminated by the fiber optics, just from the light in my office (only lit by window light). It works pretty well.
I've added a "Killflash" to the front of it (as seen on the Marine Corp ACOG above), which doesn't appear to effect viewing at all. An adjustment cap lanyard and rear lens cover are on the way. The real test will be to determine if it holds zero after putting a hundred rounds through the finished rifle. So we will have to wait and see.
PS: After my initial inspection, I went ahead and ordered a second one at the $33 price. For that price, it's a pretty decent red dot scope, even if it doesn't hold zero on an M16A4. And in that case, I will use both on either .22 rifles or BB guns.
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quietpeen
Well-known member
wow, at 33 bucks if it holds up that is a great find
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Yep. I can't wait to try it out and see if it holds zero. The very last piece for the M16A4 clone build should arrive today. The point of this project is to give me something to do while convalescing during and after upcoming medical treatments that starts this Thursday. I will probably wait a couple of weeks to begin the rifle build until I know how well I'm going to tolerate treatment.
I just finished pinning the front fender liners back a little bit on our Laramie so the new BF Goodrich Rugged Trail tires don't rub them during a hard left turn. And I replaced the blown-out 6x9 Kickers in the front doors of my Charger R/T Daytona with some better Kickers. I was going to replace the factory amp with a Kicker amp too (for better control), but I've run out of time. I figure all my automotive projects will be on hold for a while. The rifle build is just one of several indoor projects I have lined up to see me through the medical treatments.
PS: I had considered getting a legal binary trigger, so the M16A4 clone would fire in binary when the selector was set to "Burst". That would have added even more "wow" factor to this build. But those triggers run about $500. So I am going to wait on that one right now.
I just finished pinning the front fender liners back a little bit on our Laramie so the new BF Goodrich Rugged Trail tires don't rub them during a hard left turn. And I replaced the blown-out 6x9 Kickers in the front doors of my Charger R/T Daytona with some better Kickers. I was going to replace the factory amp with a Kicker amp too (for better control), but I've run out of time. I figure all my automotive projects will be on hold for a while. The rifle build is just one of several indoor projects I have lined up to see me through the medical treatments.
PS: I had considered getting a legal binary trigger, so the M16A4 clone would fire in binary when the selector was set to "Burst". That would have added even more "wow" factor to this build. But those triggers run about $500. So I am going to wait on that one right now.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
Getting ready to begin my M16A4 clone build. You will have to pardon the mess. I decide to do this in an "ad hock" storage area instead of on my desk. My medical treatments are going well, so it looks like I'm not going to be home-bound during recuperation like I thought. I might as well get this build underway. God seems to enjoy blessing fools like me. And I'm very grateful I'm not lying in bed in pain right now.
I've already found one issue. I like to use a magazine well block to hold these rifles as I build them. I usually use an unfinished 80% lower when working on the upper, since an unfinished 80% lower is much tougher than a regular finished lower. But this M16 upper will not fit on it without machining out the rear pin well on the 80% lower. The reason is that the milspec M16 upper is designed for a full automatic lower that has the back of the trigger well machined out a lot more than on an AR15. This and other similar M16 uppers will fit on a finished AR15 lower as long as there is no "gate" between the safety select location and the rear pin well. You can see what I mean in this photo.
I don't want to risk damaging my special M16A4 clone lower by using it to support the upper during assembly. Luckily, I have a junk completed lower that I messed up during machining. I will use that instead of the unfinished 80% lower. The clone lower will be completed separately from the upper to avoid damaging it.
More to come.
I've already found one issue. I like to use a magazine well block to hold these rifles as I build them. I usually use an unfinished 80% lower when working on the upper, since an unfinished 80% lower is much tougher than a regular finished lower. But this M16 upper will not fit on it without machining out the rear pin well on the 80% lower. The reason is that the milspec M16 upper is designed for a full automatic lower that has the back of the trigger well machined out a lot more than on an AR15. This and other similar M16 uppers will fit on a finished AR15 lower as long as there is no "gate" between the safety select location and the rear pin well. You can see what I mean in this photo.
I don't want to risk damaging my special M16A4 clone lower by using it to support the upper during assembly. Luckily, I have a junk completed lower that I messed up during machining. I will use that instead of the unfinished 80% lower. The clone lower will be completed separately from the upper to avoid damaging it.
More to come.
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HandyCruiser
Well-known member
It's time to try out this M16A4 clone build.
This was originally going to be a project for when I was stuck at home during medical treatments. But God showed mercy on me, and I'm tolerating the treatments exceptionally well. So I finished the build and it's time to have some fun!
The $35 ACOG knock-off is outstanding. After the first few shots, I had to zero it in a second time. But from there on, it held zero like a champ. My son told me I should be tapping on the adjustments with the handle of my screwdriver after setting them. I don't know if that made the difference. But the ACOG was good to go for the rest of the day with very tight groupings.
And oh-boy! This rifle will REALLY throw some serious lead downrange.
I really like this rifle. Admittedly, it's pretty heavy for an AR15, but it's got a LOT of muscle.
This was originally going to be a project for when I was stuck at home during medical treatments. But God showed mercy on me, and I'm tolerating the treatments exceptionally well. So I finished the build and it's time to have some fun!
The $35 ACOG knock-off is outstanding. After the first few shots, I had to zero it in a second time. But from there on, it held zero like a champ. My son told me I should be tapping on the adjustments with the handle of my screwdriver after setting them. I don't know if that made the difference. But the ACOG was good to go for the rest of the day with very tight groupings.
And oh-boy! This rifle will REALLY throw some serious lead downrange.
I really like this rifle. Admittedly, it's pretty heavy for an AR15, but it's got a LOT of muscle.
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HandyCruiser
Well-known member
My 30-year-old son has been looking for a lever gun, but the price of those things has gone out of sight. While doing some solo Christmas shopping Friday, I stopped by my go-to gun store and they had this Marlin .30-30 they had just taken as a trade-in. And the price was about the same as the other stores wanted for a worn out Winchester. Wow! And right now, Marlins are often more expensive than Winchesters. I took a photo and called my son. I told him what is mother and I were planning to spend on him this Christmas, and if he wanted to fund the rest, he could have an EXTREMELY NICE lever gun. He met me at the gun store about twenty minutes later. He's been smiling ever since.
Oh.. And that's a Leupold scope on it. It's about as clear as a sunny spring day and has about a foot of eye relief. "Wow" doesn't even cut it.
Oh.. And that's a Leupold scope on it. It's about as clear as a sunny spring day and has about a foot of eye relief. "Wow" doesn't even cut it.
BlackGold6.4
Well-known member
My favorite gun is my .30-30 .. don't have a scope on but not needed in the thick bush I'm in.. nice find... awesome
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
When comparing my son's new Marlin Model 336 .30-30 to my 1985 Marlin Model 336, he noticed that mine had "see-thru" scope mounts that allow the iron sites to still be used. He wanted a set, but the main US company that made them, Kwik Site, is no longer in business.
Stock photo similar to mine.
Luckily I found that while not selling directly, Kwik Site continues to make them for other manufactures. Since his .30-30 came with a factory Weaver rail and an awesome Leupold scope on it, I was able to find the Weaver version of the same US-made see-thru mounts being sold by Leupold. The part number is 55880. So there will be a set under the Christmas tree for him.
Stock photo similar to mine.
Luckily I found that while not selling directly, Kwik Site continues to make them for other manufactures. Since his .30-30 came with a factory Weaver rail and an awesome Leupold scope on it, I was able to find the Weaver version of the same US-made see-thru mounts being sold by Leupold. The part number is 55880. So there will be a set under the Christmas tree for him.
HandyCruiser
Well-known member
And while shopping at Bass Pro Shop, I kept thinking that something was off. But I am not sure what it was.
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